Professional services buyers want to see more than simple boilerplate to inform their decision about why they should hire you. Marketing needs to be tailored as much as possible to address their specific needs and concerns.
Derek Goodroe, marketing director at Ashley McGraw Architects, talks about why he invests time and resources into carefully tailoring each request for proposal (RFP) — even if it takes hours to get it right. He and host Michelle Calcote King discuss the evolution of the architecture industry and the marketer’s role. They also cover the tools Ashley McGraw uses to expand reach and impact, including email marketing and industry conferences.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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Who Derek Goodroe is
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About Ashley McGraw Architects and the Vaysen Studio
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How competition for architecture services has intensified over time
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The challenges marketing departments, especially small teams, face when writing proposals
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What elements make an RFP response more competitive
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Best practices for crafting a tailored proposal that sells
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Tips for collaborating with architects to elevate the quality of your RFP responses
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How to leverage conferences as a business development and marketing tool
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Better ways to use email to connect with clients and prospects
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The marketing department’s influence on firm culture and employee engagement
About our featured guest
Derek Goodroe is the director of marketing at Ashley McGraw Architects. He has been with Ashley McGraw since 2010 and cumulatively has over 19 years of marketing experience, including 16 years in professional services.
His strategic vision and approach to marketing and business development have been pivotal in steering Ashley McGraw Architects' growth and presence, particularly within the firm's Syracuse, New York, and Washington, DC, offices. While overseeing the development and delivery of a fully integrated marketing strategy for the firm, Derek is also dedicated to driving business development, fostering a culture of collaboration and ensuring the firm's values are reflected in every marketing message, client interaction and proposal pursuit. Derek is a member of the Upstate New York chapter of the Society for Marketing Professional Services (SMPS).
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Derek Goodroe: You really want to get to know the client and what their pain points are, what's keeping them up at night so then you can really tailor that proposal with, "Hey, we've done four projects like the one you want to do, and here's the staff that's done it that you're going to have, and this is how we're going to do it for you."
[00:00:16] Announcer: Welcome to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
[00:00:37] Michelle Calcote King: Hi, and welcome to "Spill the Ink." I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm also the Principal and President of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for architecture, engineering and construction firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
Ashley McGraw Architects is an architecture, planning and design firm with offices in New York and Washington, D. C. They specialize in creating spaces where people work, learn and collaborate. Marketing Director Derek Goodroe is joining me to chat about marketing Ashley McGraw and firms like it. He oversees Ashley McGraw's fully integrated marketing strategy, helps to drive business development and works to foster the firm's collaborative culture.
So thanks for chatting with me today.
[00:01:26] Derek Goodroe: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:26] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you.
So most people don't go to school and say, "I want to be an architecture firm marketer." So how did you get into this?
[00:01:35] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, I kind of just fell into it. So I was in professional services right after college, just about. Worked for a community bank in Albany for three years and kind of felt my career was plateauing and I wanted to relocate closer to home in Syracuse, New York.
So this was back in 2010. So what better time to search for a job than the Great Recession time? So I ended up applying to a few jobs and this one hit. And came and interviewed and loved what they had to say and a new industry. So here I am and still here 14 years later, which is mind blowing to me that now I'm kind of more of the senior people here.
But yeah, it was a quick baptism by fire, I guess you'd say, to the architecture industry in the great recession. About two or three weeks after I started, we were a firm of 60. We unfortunately had to lay off about 10 people just because everyone was. So it kind of introduced me to how architecture kind of waves in different cycles of either feast or famine for your work.
[00:02:37] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, the economy really impacts what's being built. So yeah, I can see how that impacts the work.
So yeah, the past 14 years has seen a lot of change and a lot of change in marketing especially. So tell me how marketing has evolved and how it's evolved for your strategy with the firm over those years. What has changed?
[00:02:58] Derek Goodroe: Competition. Definitely competition, which can go in multiple ways. So obviously, kind of seeing more bigger firms. So smaller firms are getting acquired and merged into bigger firms. So those firms are starting to have a larger footprint. So we're seeing a lot more firms starting to invade, if you will, our market areas. We're primarily in New York state so we're starting to see out-of-state firms compete for work. So it just kind of raises the level of competition, obviously.
And proposals I feel like are kind of a heavier lift now. Everyone kind of wants more tailor-made instead of boilerplate. And I'm seeing kind of a less turnaround time. It used to be, like, three to four weeks and now it's sometimes a 10 to 14 day turnaround.
[00:03:43] Michelle Calcote King: Oh, wow.
[00:03:43] Derek Goodroe: Typologies, since I've started, have evolved. So we're primarily an educational firm. So, like, right now, obviously, like, eSports, healthcare, student life spaces are really hot in our sectors.
Capacity for staff. Seems like every firm is just bursting at the seams of work. So trying to A, recruit new staff and kind of also our staff here, make sure that they're doing well with the work that they have, but also understand when I'm giving my marketing report out, all these are fees we're pursuing that they understand that it's work down the line. That we always have to have our eye on the future and can't be just, you know, resting and enjoying all the work we have now. We still have to build capacity and backlog.
[00:04:27] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. That's a tough one when you're so, so busy to be the marketer working on, yeah, that pipeline. But that's when you can't keep your foot off the gas during good times. I can't tell you the number of times I've had firms come to me and want to do marketing when things are bad and that's not the time to do it. You know, cause then it's panic and last minute, you know, kind of thing. That's not the time to do it. So yeah, I can imagine that's a tough one when people are, you know, work's overflowing and you have to kind of explain that this is a pipeline development and years in the making.
So how much of proposals is part of your challenge and part of your team? And how big is your team?
[00:05:10] Derek Goodroe: Right now it's just me and a marketing coordinator. We're looking for a business development manager or kind of like a marketing manager. So, yeah, I've been very hands-on with proposals still. I mean, since I started, that's primarily like my main focus. I don't know, I just have a passion for it. It's like a puzzle to me and I love, like, fitting the pieces together.
And I just remember when I first started, we went after our project, which was kind of a long shot and one of the project managers went to the walkthrough and I had him kind of go through the project approach. So it was a boilerplate and I was kind of new to everything so I just kind of went with what he put and submitted. We didn't get shortlisted. So I did a debrief and the client's like, "Did you even come to the walkthrough? There's like nothing in your approach that says, you know, anything about our project."
So that was kind of a wake up call and just helped me, especially now that I've been here for so long that you really need to do your homework and research. So there's always site visits. If they don't say that they'll accept or have, like, a group tour, always ask them.
But it also comes in the pre-positioning before an RFP comes out. Like you shouldn't already have been in touch with the client and met with them before the RFP comes out. Otherwise you're already behind your competition. So you really want to get to know the client and what their pain points are, what's keeping them up at night so then you can really tailor that proposal with, "Hey, we've done four projects like the one you want to do, and here's the staff that's done it that you're going to have, and this is how we're going to do it for you."
[00:06:39] Michelle Calcote King: How much time would you say an individual proposal takes you?
[00:06:43] Derek Goodroe: [laughs] I don't know if I want to calculate that. I've never really have 'cause every proposal is different. But I mean, I'm working on one now that I've probably just spent four hours on the project approach alone, just tailoring it. So what we saw at the walkthrough and, yeah, trying to really write size to what they're looking for. 'Cause, like I said, the competition's so fierce now and we're even starting to see where design work's starting to integrate into proposals or they're almost design competitions. And then once you get to the interview stage, it's kind of almost a given now that you're showing some type of rendering. So it's kind of evolved from where you're just showing your good old PowerPoint of, "Here's our firm. This is what we do. Here's some past projects," to really tailoring it all about them.
[00:07:28] Michelle Calcote King: Interesting. Okay. And so when you say, "tailoring it," so it's about you're tailoring it talking about the team? You're tailoring it to looking at the past projects? What are some of the other ways that you're really giving it that tailored approach?
[00:07:43] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, I think it starts from the first page to the last page. So the cover letter, talking about them, what you know about them, what their pain points are. Right into the project approach, again, all about them. I mean, obviously it's going to have boilerplate, but you want to still tailor to what they're looking for.
Project sheets, we're showing bullets of, "This is why our projects are relevant to what you're seeking."
Resumes, "Here's the staff that we're giving you and they've worked on XYZ projects which also align to the projects we're showing in the proposal and that align to what you're looking for."
I mean, it's just doing the research, especially with the internet now. I mean, you can find news articles... Like I said, we're primarily an educational firm so it's amazing what you can find kind of going through Board of Ed minutes. Like, you can find out fees from your competitors, you can find out what they're looking for before they release an RFP. So it's really kind of making the time and effort to really go after things efficiently and effectively.
[00:08:41] Michelle Calcote King: How do you collaborate with the architects on the proposals?
[00:08:45] Derek Goodroe: So I have a very great executive team that are really hands-on with proposals. I lead the proposal efforts, but I'm always bouncing back ideas with them. I kind of help frame out the approach and then they come in at the back-end to add in all their technical knowledge and expertise. Obviously not too technical or the average person like me that would be reading it doesn't understand some of the terms that they might be using. So, we just kind of play tag team on things. And, obviously, I'm not going to put together the project schedule, so I depend on them for some of the more specific proposal deliverables.
But yeah, we have a pretty good system down and everyone kind of knows what our proposal development looks like. And it's just, of course, like anyone just pushing architects and engineers of, "This is my deadline. I need it by this date and time."
[00:09:33] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, it's a unique art, I think, working with technical professionals on marketing. And it's learning how to, to kind of extract that information and then translate it. So it's a unique skill set.
[00:09:46] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, especially ‘cause they're so creative that they also want to be kind of adding their flair to whether it's the writing or maybe the photos that you're showing.
[00:09:54] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
One interesting thing I saw is that the firm does branding work through Vaysen Studio. Did I pronounce that correctly?
[00:10:01] Derek Goodroe: Yep. Yep. So one of our principals, Susanne Angarano has started kind of a sub-studio separate from Ashley McGraw. So it concentrates on interior design, educational planning and branding. So we kind of launched it as a vehicle, if you will, to kind of expand outside New York state where we can kind of go after projects in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic.
It's been around for three years now, so we're gaining some traction and it's kind of a different marketing because we're pursuing other architecture firms to get them on the team. So yeah, it's a whole different dynamic, but it's fun and exciting.
[00:10:36] Michelle Calcote King: Interesting. So is it like environmental graphics? So it's branding in the actual space, physical space?
[00:10:43] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, it's kind of like intertwining interior design with the wayfinding, branding, environmental graphics. It's very interesting.
[00:10:50] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's a natural extension to what you do. Yeah, fascinating.
So, obviously, proposal writing can, I know, often with architecture firms take up a significant portion of your work. Tell me about other tactics. What else do you focus on? What other channels do you find effective with marketing the firm?
[00:11:09] Derek Goodroe: I mean, business development, like, 101. Like I said, we have to pre-position ourselves for RFPs and obviously can't be settled in with our current clients as much as we love them. We also want to diversify and branch out. So just reaching out, conferences is a great source to kind of see your current clients because sometimes you only see them at project meetings. But meeting new clients, and we always try to submit a speaking presentation just kind of... I don't want to say low hanging fruit, but in a way, I mean, it's a great way to get out there in front of your prospective clients and invite your current clients to say, "Hey, you want to collaborate on this presentation and talk about your project?" so that way you're kind of rewarding them and showing them how much you care about their project and them.
[00:11:54] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
[00:11:54] Derek Goodroe: And you get to kind of broadcast out your projects.
[00:11:58] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:11:59] Derek Goodroe: And networking. So you're at the conferences networking. So seeing prospective clients and also your teaming partners are there, and kind of getting intel from your teaming partners who are engineers, construction managers, anyone kind of who might not be happy with our current architect, who might be looking, who might have an RFP coming down the line. So it's always valuable.
[00:12:21] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
What about social media? What are you doing there?
[00:12:24] Derek Goodroe: Yep. So we're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. All the usual ones. Threads.
We try to post one or two times a week. Obviously, the hardest thing I find is content, content, content. I'm always drilling my technical team, " Even if you're at a project site, just take a few photos and we can use it as a project update for social media posts."
And I'm also kind of... I don't always want it to be about us saying, "Hey, here's another great project we finished," or, "Here's another award we won." So it's just kind of also trying to push some thought leadership posts to kind of show, like, our deeper thinking on architecture and design and sustainability. So, yeah, there's a lot to it. [laughs]
[00:13:06] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I know. That thought leadership is one of those really difficult things to do. I was going to ask about that.
Have you found success with that, and especially when you're really, really busy, to get a very busy professional to do kind of that deeper thinking type piece? Have you been able to get them to kind of pull away from work and do that kind of thought leadership work in these busier times?
[00:13:30] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, they are really busy so it has kind of been hard to get them that focused, but they all do love getting out there and speaking about the project and their expertise. So it kind of makes it easier. And I kind of formulate our marketing plan, obviously, in the beginning of the year so I kind of know what's coming and what conferences are coming. So we kind of know when Call for Presentations are coming out.
And then I have, like, market-focused meetings every two weeks or once a month, depending on the market. So we always have an agenda and kind of run through those deadlines and dates so we know what's coming and have a thought leadership topic of, you know, is there any current projects that we're working on where there's some lessons learned or even if we can just do, like, a case study or our own white paper and then use that to send out to clients and put it on our web page and e-blast. So it doesn't always have to be like in a national publication or a trade publication. You can kind of create your own and you use it that way.
[00:14:26] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I like to ask people about email. What are you doing with email? Is it more when you have something to send? Do you have a particular strategy? Are you trying to send at a certain frequency? Or is it more just when you have something worthwhile to get out?
[00:14:40] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, as we're talking about this, I'm realizing that I'm probably due to send some e-blasts off because it's probably been a while. But yeah, we use MailChimp. So we try and send out, like you said, when we have, like, relevant content. I don't want to just blast out emails just to blast out emails because I know half the time they probably don't get read. Everyone's busy so once we have some really engaging content or a really nice project that's either just completed or won some awards, then we kind of create something engaging that hopefully will stick.
[00:15:11] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, email is one of those, I think, more challenging mediums but has a lot of impact when it actually does work.
But yeah, you're right. You want to make sure, yeah, you have something worthwhile to send.
[00:15:21] Derek Goodroe: Yeah. That's why I try to, like, if we're targeting specific prospective clients, instead of using, like, MailChimp, just send it directly so it's kind of more personal and make the body of the email personal saying, "Hey, just reaching out. We completed this project. I know this is coming down the pipeline for you based on your master plan," or just kind of your research. So just kind of tailoring it, again, about them and just showing that you care and even sometimes, it doesn't have to be a project that you did. You can say, "Hey, I saw this article in AIA magazine about, you know, a new trend on higher education campuses and want you to see it."
[00:15:58] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. That's actually kind of a-- It's funny. It seems so obvious but-- I'm sure you've heard the term account-based marketing where it's actually just peeling off a particular prospect and targeting them with some thoughtful marketing outreach versus kind of those big blast type things. So it sounds like you're just doing that.
[00:16:19] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, it takes time. I just did a presentation for some new employees. We do, like, an onboarding academy. So I present, like, our marketing and business development because we kind of forget that most architects are just coming straight from design school and don't have that business background. So just educating them on what we do.
So I think it was from SMPS where I kind of pulled some things where they compared business development to, like, farming where it takes time, which is true because it takes-- I gave an example of a school district we pursued where it took almost five years between when we heard a new superintendent came aboard. And just, like, our outreach, getting a meeting with them. By the time an RFP actually came out, submitting the RFP, interviewing, award, and then pre-referendum vote, and then the actual project passing, it was five years.
So it takes time to kind of see the real results of gaining a new client.
[00:17:13] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's smart. I have courted a prospect for 10 years. 10 years! A decade! So, yeah, I completely understand that. It's very lengthy, it doesn't-- And then sometimes things happen within, you know, a month. So yeah, it's kind of shocking, but yeah, it's more likely many, many years. So absolutely.
I'm glad you mentioned how you present to new hires 'cause I wanted to ask you about your role in kind of firm culture. Tell me about that.
[00:17:44] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, it's funny you asked that question because I was at a SMPS event a couple months ago and one of my fellow marketers, I was talking to her and she mentioned that her title, or actually it was on her name tag, her title was Director of Marketing and Culture. And I was like, "Wow, that's really fascinating," but it totally does make sense because I don't know, I just feel the marketing department is kind of the glue of the firm. Like, I just feel like we wear so many hats within the firm besides just the marketing and business development where I feel like myself, I'm kind of the cheerleader at times, whether we're kind of down because we haven't won a few projects or got shortlisted or, you know, pumping up the team if we are doing well.
And then it kind of just bleeds out internally in terms of any community events or employee events, sponsorships that we're doing that we just want to convey, like, who Ashley McGraw is, our brand, and kind of just educating, like, new hires. What that is and making them see why this is such a great place to work and have great clients and great design work to do.
[00:18:45] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's great.
So it sounds like you're active in the Society for Marketing Professional Services, SMPS. Tell me about that.
[00:18:52] Derek Goodroe: Yeah, since I've been here, I joined– I've been lucky enough to attend the national conference in Austin, San Antonio, Philadelphia, San Diego. I think that's it. And then I go to our regional chapter events and local events. But yeah, it's such a valuable resource. I mean, I'd encourage everyone to join and just attend events. Even if there's a topic that you think, you know, a lot, there's always a few takeaways you can gain.
And then it's just more of just talking to your fellow marketers. I always feel like we're kind of on an island in architecture firms and engineering firms because usually we're just an army of one or two so we don't really have that chance to interact with fellow marketers to kind of complain or bounce ideas off of. So it's always good to kind of be in a room of like-minded people and just see what other firms are doing and what their pain points are. And it kind of helps you in a way of therapy, knowing that, "Hey, everyone's just as busy as you are and has the same kind of challenges that they're going through."
[00:19:51] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I agree. I've noticed that people are very willing to share and you know, there's not that kind of wall of competition that you would think there is, yeah. Which I really appreciate.
You know, I like to kind of end these with sort of one final thought. So if there's one lesson you've learned over your years with marketing an architecture firm, what would that be? Sort of your biggest lesson?
[00:20:14] Derek Goodroe: That's a great question. I feel like there's so many ways you can go with that.
I think I've learned in this industry, like I said, it's just the cycles. So you can't get down on yourself if, like, it's a downturn in the economy and competition's rising and the work isn't as plentiful out there. You just kind of have to increase your level of competition in yourself to kind of raise up and raise up your firm and your people and go after the work more aggressively. And I think, like, right now when there's a ton of work, you also have to ride that wave and still not sit back. You still have to be forward-thinking about business development for down the line, and also understand your time management the best.
Like, I don't know. I just have this thrill of deadlines. I just love it. Just gives me energy. Where some people might crater under the pressure, I kind of love it and sometimes when I don't have those deadlines, I'm like, I feel like a piece of me is missing or the energy is not there. So it's just nice working in a architecture firm and feeling that energy when sometimes if you don't have a deadline, a design team might, and you see them in the office working hard and you just kind of, you appreciate each other about how hard everyone's working and we all have the same common goals and end game.
[00:21:28] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. That's great.
Well, thank you so much. So we've been talking to Derek Goodroe of Ashley McGraw Architects. So if somebody wanted to reach out and get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:21:37] Derek Goodroe: Email. I'm all over social media. If you go to our website, www.AshleyMcGraw.com, my contact information's on there. So yeah. I would love to hear from anyone.
[00:21:47] Michelle Calcote King: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
[00:21:49] Derek Goodroe: Thank you.
[00:21:51] Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click "Subscribe" to get future episodes.
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