Inside ENR’s Rankings: What AEC Firms Should Focus On

[00:00:00] Emell Derra Adolphus: And so when you submit, you’re saying, not only do I care about what happens to this community, I want to learn more and I want to support and do what I can to help improve things. And so that’s really the benefit I would say when it comes to submitting.

[00:00:20] Announcer: Welcome to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let’s get started with the show.

[00:00:37] Steven Gallo: Welcome to Spill the Ink. For our returning listeners, you may have noticed that I am in fact not Michelle Calcote King. My name is Steven Gallo and I’m the vice president of client services at Reputation Ink. And I’m really excited to begin sharing hosting responsibilities with Michelle. Starting today, Reputation Ink is a public relations and thought leadership marketing agency for B2B professional services firms, including architecture, engineering and construction firms. To learn more, go to Rep-Ink, that’s Ink with a K, dot com. OK, so we have a really exciting episode planned for you today. And not only is it my debut as your host, but we’re also kicking off a new series where we dive into the crème de la crème of AEC awards and rankings programs. To kick us off, I’m excited to welcome Emell Adolphus from Engineering News-Record. Emell is the senior editor of ENR Top Lists and Surveys rankings, and he’ll be sharing insights about the programs, as well as how to use that information to really guide your business. He has more than a decade of writing and journalism experience, and in fact, you may already be familiar with his work. In addition to managing ENR’s prestigious programs, he also writes about technology, climate resiliency and DEI for the magazine. Welcome to the show, Emell. It’s great to have you.

[00:01:54] Emell Derra Adolphus: Thank you for having me. Big fan.

[00:01:57] Steven Gallo: Well, thank you so much for taking the time. And for those who don’t know you already, why don’t you get us started by telling us a little bit more about yourself and your work at ENR?

[00:02:06] Emell Derra Adolphus: Sure. So it’s really been about five years in this position writing about these companies. And in that time I’ve really gotten to, with ENR’s audience, really gotten to know the big players, the major players in each market and when it comes to construction specialties as well. And so that’s really the bulk of my work and writing about how these companies are improving, not only improving the lives of their employees, but also improving the collaboration with their clients as well.

[00:02:36] Steven Gallo: Awesome. And you know, when we’re talking about these top lists, of course, I know they happen year-round and folks are always curious about how do I get on these lists? How do folks show up there? So for those who are a bit unfamiliar, tell us a bit about what are they and why they’ve become so sought after of a ranking in the construction industry?

[00:02:56] Emell Derra Adolphus: Right. So I would just say the survey for this year is open. It’s available at enr.com. It’s open. And the survey really, we look at not only the regional level but the national level as well. Things you may not know about ENR, that it’s split up by regions, right? So there are lots of regional issues, but there’s also an overarching national issue as well. And so the survey takes that same approach where we’re talking to regional companies and we can get a sense of who the regional players are. And then from those surveys, we create a national list as well to see where those companies rank on a national level.

[00:03:37] Steven Gallo: Got it. So does it start regionally and then among the regional ones, national are selected, or are they separate? How does that work?

[00:03:45] Emell Derra Adolphus: So the regional feeds into the national, and so while you may be, let’s say, number one in wastewater management at a regional level, that could change at a national level if, you know, in terms of if the company actually ranks on a national level as well, because it’s a lot more competitive at a national level, I’ll say.

[00:04:05] Steven Gallo: Understandably so. Sure. OK, so walk us through, I guess that submission and evaluation process. I understand you collect both hard numbers, like revenue, backlog, things like that, but also qualitative insights that aren’t necessarily measured in numbers. So how do you balance those different types of data? Tell us a bit about that.

[00:04:25] Emell Derra Adolphus: Yeah, so in every issue we really, I mean there’s the quantitative data, right? And that’s presented with graphs and charts and that information, which is compared to previous years, when it comes to that data scrape. But the qualitative information, it really is about telling the story. I mean, and for me, it’s one of my favorite parts of the job is to really pore over thousands and thousands of words to see what the challenges are for these contractors and what the solutions are as well, and what they’re facing, and not only what they’re facing, but how they’re innovating as well. Creating innovative solutions, creating programs, creating new positions in reaction to what’s happening in the market as well. So you really get a sense of, you really get a sense of, I’ll just say you really get a sense of regionally what’s happening, but also nationally to see if there is a trend that we can break out into the national issue as well.

[00:05:33] Steven Gallo: Sure. Yeah. And that’s a lot of data, a lot of words, I imagine. So tell me a bit about how you and the ENR team ensure the accuracy, integrity of the rankings when you’re getting so much data in your door.

[00:05:48] Emell Derra Adolphus: So how do we keep everyone honest? That’s the question.

[00:05:50] Steven Gallo: Sure. Yeah. Right. That’s a fair question.

[00:05:52] Emell Derra Adolphus: So without giving away too much of the secret sauce, I will tell you that we are backed by a team of professional journalists, right? So these are the regional editors. They’re about, I want to say all in all with ENR staff, it’s about 15 of us, including the people who work hard to keep the lights on, our sales team and our publishers team and events as well. But you know, we keep everyone honest by, with the submission process, we’re able to really, I mean, we’re all trained journalists and we’re able to really look at the data that you’re submitting to see how you, you know, if you are a company that we write about a lot and the projects that you’re taking on, that’s usually represented in the data, right? So if you have, if you have X company and it just won this project award for a certain amount, that usually is reflected in the data somehow. If we’re finding that this company, you know, there are companies that are coming out of the blue and that might not reflect in our coverage of what that company actually specializes in, or the amount of work it should be getting in relation to its other competitors in the region, then that sort of gives us a little bit of a red flag that we should look more into, OK, where, you know, did you have a special year? Was it a special private project you did? You know, where is this revenue coming from? So we have a team that really looks at the numbers and looks at the qualitative aspect of it as well to tell us, OK, this is a company that the team should be looking at because they’re doing a lot more work. Or this company’s having some trouble, or having more challenges, why don’t we look into why those challenges are happening in this region? So there is a, we have a whole team, like I said, of professional journalists who are doing the legwork as well to make sure that, you know, we’re publishing things that are accurate and we’re getting accurate information and we’re reflecting the market in the way that it is and not the way that maybe a company wishes it to be.

[00:07:55] Steven Gallo: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, with all of this kind of data and information, one might ask, or I might ask, you know, what’s in it for the companies really? Like what’s the benefit of submitting to these programs? I’m sure, you know, there’s a certain time-intensive part of the job for the contractors. So tell us a bit about, you know, what’s in it for them?

[00:08:13] Emell Derra Adolphus: Right. So to me, what’s in it for them is, like you said, a public record, right? So this is a public record. It’s, we’re not like, we’re not hiding it. We’re not hiding, this is a public record to say, this is the work that, for example, let’s say the Tulsa market is doing. This is the work that our contractors are doing. And so companies want to be a part of that. They want to be a part of that conversation. They want to be, you know, a, acknowledged for the work that they do, the positive impact they have in their communities. And so when you submit, you’re saying, not only do I care about what happens to this community, I want to learn more and I want to support and do what I can to help improve things. And so that’s really the benefit I would say when it comes to submitting. And I’ve talked to, we’ve talked to companies who say it’s, it is time-intensive, it really is. But then when we explain the public record, and when we explain the benefit of being the No. 1 company in this region and what that means and the bragging rights that come along with that, companies decide to set aside that 30 minutes to an hour to really, to go ahead and fill out that survey. And we’ve made steps this year to really make it a lot easier. We’re not, you know, we want to make it easier because we know it is very time-intensive and you know, companies have other things to worry about as well.

[00:09:31] Steven Gallo: Yeah, well, that makes sense. You know, it’s something that you can point to as, you know, the things you’re doing in the community, the work you’re doing. I mean, even just as a marketing resource, you can leverage these lists and say, hey, we’re, you know, we’re on this list. You know, we ranked here. That’s proof positive of the work we’re doing and shows up on the national scale, like you said, kind of getting the work you’re doing out there.

[00:09:49] Emell Derra Adolphus: And not only getting the work that, that you’re doing out there, but it also shows that you care about your employees, right? So ENR as a brand, not only do we produce the Top Lists, but we also produce Best Places to Work, Diversity Leaders, Top Young Professionals. And so being a part of the ENR ecosystem, if you will, it shows that not only do you care about, you know, being ranked and all that in terms of revenue and backlog, but you also care about what kind of impact you’re having on your employees, what kind of impact you’re having on your communities as well. And so yeah, it really is, you know, what you’re getting out of it is just that acknowledgment from this trusted brand, this trusted media brand.

[00:10:31] Steven Gallo: Yeah, makes sense. That’s, that’s great. You know, just connecting the dots here a little bit, you know, you mentioned this acknowledgment and we’re, you know, we’re in a time right now, early 2025, where there’s a lot of uncertainty, whether it be policy changes, tariffs, things like that. Obviously the incoming administration. In your opinion, what makes being featured in a ranking like ENR’s especially impactful at a time when there’s so much uncertainty?

[00:10:54] Emell Derra Adolphus: I mean, I think that if you’re a company and you’re on the fence about submitting or you’re not sure about it, like with any year, you really should just go ahead and do it. You should really just go ahead and do it, because, you know, the industry is cyclical, right? There are, and we’ve seen over the past 10 years, we’ve seen there have been many cycles. And so, you know, if you’re a company that, you know, made a commitment to this industry, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the survey is a way for you to mark that time and say, this is where I was. This is what was happening. And with that uncertainty, we’re very much going to be reflecting that in terms of what companies tell us, what our data says. But not only that, we’re reflecting that uncertainty, but we’re going to see the solutions as well, and we want to be able to break out the solutions that companies are using. And you want to be a part of that. You want to be a part of that conversation. And so what it does is that there is not necessarily, you know, a list that says, here are all the solutions on how to combat whatever’s being thrown at you in the market. But it starts a conversation. It starts a conversation among your peers. It starts a conversation among the audience. It’s like, oh, let me reach out to this firm and find out what are they doing in terms of, you know, tariffs? What are they doing in terms of, you know, the, you know, policy decisions coming down the pike? What are they doing in terms of, you know, maybe being in, located in a climate resiliency market? And so that’s really the benefit I think is to be, become a part of that conversation.

[00:12:36] Steven Gallo: Mm hmm. That makes sense. You know, just kind of looking at the historical precedent for this coming year and seeing how you’ve overcome past challenges, I mean, the industry’s certainly going to face new challenges and we all are. You know, I think it’s important to be able to look at what other companies are doing, what other contractors are doing to face some of these things or solutions they’ve come up with. You know, that’s really valuable to be a part of that conversation.

[00:12:56] Emell Derra Adolphus: Absolutely. And sorry, may I add to that?

[00:12:58] Steven Gallo: Yeah, please.

[00:13:00] Emell Derra Adolphus: So one of the things that we also are doing too is not, is in terms of how, you know, what the data is telling us and what the qualitative information is telling us about what companies are doing and how they’re combating these things, we’re going to be reaching out to industry leaders like yourself. And so, you know, I just want everyone to know who’s listening that it’s not like you’re submitting and then you’re done and then we’re never going to talk to you again. We’re going to be reaching out to you. We want to highlight what you’re doing and what the solutions are. And we want to be able to put that on a platform for everyone to see, whether that’s a profile, an interview, whether that’s on the podcast that’s coming up this year. We want to be able to say, look at what these companies are doing. They’re, you know, adapting to the times, and this is the way they’re doing it. So you’re not necessarily in this boat alone rowing because there are other companies that are doing it and we’d like to show you what they’re doing as well.

[00:13:53] Steven Gallo: Yeah, well, that’s great. OK, well, perfect. So let’s turn to talking a little bit about kind of trends and insights. So given the, you know, the big picture view that you have of the construction industry from this sort of bird’s-eye view that you have, you know, you look at the submissions, you’re looking at all this data from, you know, thousands and thousands of contractors coming in. What are some of the most notable shifts or trends that you’ve observed recently and maybe in, you know, through this process and through the rankings? What have you seen?

[00:14:21] Emell Derra Adolphus: So we have seen, we’ve been tracking a lot of, a lot of the big trends, which is AI use, right? And that’s not necessarily, you know, a big secret. I mean, I feel like everyone in America is talking about AI right now and artificial intelligence, whether or not they actually know what that means or not is, you know, we can get into that later. But, in terms of what we’re seeing, the submissions and the data submissions will close in about a month from now. And I suspect we’re going to see a lot more discussion about technology use, software use. So think of, you know, BIM 360, Procore, things like that and how that’s actually impacting the construction industry because there have been, while we have in previous years, we’ve seen a lot of discussion about that. We’re going to be seeing a lot more firms adopt that. Last year was really, it seemed about, of course we always have our early adopters, right? But last year was really about experimenting and seeing how it can work for the firm because, you know, it’s, we had companies definitely tell us that they don’t want to have technology for technology’s sake. But really now as they work to keep up with the amount of work that they have, I suspect that there’s going to be a greater use of AI when it comes to company operations. And that’s something to be excited about on my end, but it’s also something that we’re watching very closely to see, will there be, is it a pendulum? Is this AI thing going to be like a pendulum where it goes really, goes one way when it comes to early adoption and everyone’s talking about AI, and then will it go back the other way? It really, in that regard, I like to compare it to the trends that we saw around diversity, equity, inclusion, where we saw things go really hard one way, and for sure there are still companies that are committed to that idea and that’s the way trends go, right? You sort of, there are some people who are in it for the trend and then they abandon it. But there are also some companies that have really made it a part of the fabric of their company and are still very much, 100% have 100% buy-in when it comes to that particular process or technology or initiative. And so we saw that with DEI and I think we’re going to see that with AI as well. Now I’m just waiting to see when that actual pullback, if it does come, it could come next year. It could come, you know, five years from now. But definitely we’re watching to see how AI is going to be changing not only operations, but the priorities of this administration, local priorities as well. So as more people, more and more people use it, the need for data centers and this buildout increases.

[00:33:58] Steven Gallo: Yeah, absolutely. They are infrastructure heavy, energy hungry. It’s definitely something we’re going to be continuing to watch and evolve this year, certainly. Well, despite the uncertainty and a lot of the things that we’re kind of waiting and seeing where they go, if you could give, I guess, one piece of advice to construction firms really navigating the volatility right now —

[00:34:22] Emell Derra Adolphus: Mm hmm.

[00:34:23] Steven Gallo: What would that be from your perspective?

[00:34:27] Emell Derra Adolphus: So I can only give you what other companies have told us, right?

[00:34:32] Steven Gallo: Sure.

[00:34:32] Emell Derra Adolphus: And that has been to diversify your business, your portfolio, to diversify. And that works, that’s a double-edged sword, right? Because if you’re really good at, you know, telecommunications and you’re really great, if something happens, you know, maybe tariffs affect those materials, right? There’s a chance that, you know, you’re going to be really caught with some challenges, right? But there’s also the benefit of you being, you know, this expert and very well known for, for example, telecommunications. And so it’s a double-edged sword and we’re seeing companies take both approaches when it comes to their advice on combating volatility. They’re saying, OK, we’re pulling back on diversifying our portfolio and doing the things that we know we do really, really well. And then we have other companies that say, you know, this business, this particular part of our business is strong and it’s been strong for a while, but we sort of want to take insurance by dipping a toe into another market and, you know, shoring up that. And then we have other companies that say, you know, this part of our business is strong. We’d like to diversify, so we’re just going to go ahead and buy another company. And that’s one way of combating volatility as well. And so I really think it depends on your region. You know, it really depends on your region and the type of work you specialize in. Because of course, you know, if you’re a contractor in California, it’s a lot different from being a contractor in Alabama and Florida. You know, different sectors are going to really have their ebbs and flows according to the region. And so I think you really have to look at that regional point of view when it comes to combating some of the ebbs and flows of the market.

[00:36:34] Steven Gallo: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great point. Well, Emell, this has been really great. And as we wrap up here and speaking of what we’re waiting and seeing and looking ahead to, tell us a bit about what’s next for you and perhaps any final thoughts you want to leave our listeners with.

[00:36:51] Emell Derra Adolphus: OK, so what’s personally next for me? There’s about a six-month block coming up where I am completely just busy producing huge overviews for our ENR print issues, and those are available online. And so in these overviews, that includes the quantitative data, that includes the qualitative data as well. But adding to those overviews this year, we really want to continue the conversation online. So we’re going to be launching a podcast where we’re talking about, we’re talking with company execs about their company operations and innovation and the challenges and solutions that they’re seeing in their market as well. And so we’re going to be adding that podcast with the overviews that we publish as well, so you can look for that online. And in terms of our team, we’re really going to be working to formulate different data sets as well. So when I talk about our team, that includes a gentleman by the name of John Keller. That includes one of our newer members of our team, Jack, as well. And we’re going to be working together to really rework how we present different data sets from that data as well, because there’s, you know, only so much room we have in the print issue, but online we really want to see if there is an interest in a different slice of data and just according to what we can actually produce with the data that we have. And so we’re going to be really looking at that to keep it fresh for our subscribers and our audience and to ensure that we’re just giving everyone the tools, you know, a tool that they would find useful when it comes to making decisions about their company. And so that’s what we’re really tackling this year. And of course, in between looking at, you know, the standout stories, looking at programs as well and initiatives that we’d want to highlight in other issues as well. But those are the two things that we’re really excited about this year.

[00:38:58] Steven Gallo: Awesome. Well, that’s great. A lot to look forward to and we’ll stay tuned on that podcast forthcoming. So that’s excellent. Well, thank you again for your time today. We’ve been talking to Emell Adolphus of Engineering News-Record. Thank you again for joining us and we hope to connect with you again soon.

[00:39:15] Emell Derra Adolphus: Thanks for having me.

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